Hello
I am looking for a CFD-type simulation tool capable of "simulating" fluid behaviors (liquid or gaseous) inside a tank subjected to variations in T°C (example: cleaning a tank at temperature T0 at a flow rate Q with a fluid at temperature T1, then rinsing at T2). The objective is to check the pressure and vacuum phenomena inside the tank to determine a sufficient vent hole.
I am a taker of SME software names.
Thank you.
https://www.google.fr/search?q=solidworks+flow+simulation&client=ms-android-om-lge&espv=1&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sboxchip=Vid%C3%A9os&sa=X&ei=q0cVVbP1JsXj7QbZ3IDoAw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=360&bih=517
In fact, I forgot to mention that we already had Flow simulation but it doesn't meet our needs. We must also be able to manage the fluid mixture.
Hello
There is Abaqus/CFD but I don't know if it is financially accessible to an SME . . .
See this link
Specialists in the field
with pro simulation and the multiple courses performed
it may be possible
@+;-))
Your tank when you clean it will not be pressurized, it is the fluid that you are going to inject that will be at a certain pressure and for it to act on the walls it is necessary in my humble opinion an empty tank with an open vent called vent and an oil change to recover the product or washing products as well as the dirt taken back or not in the pump to be reinjected via filtration so the flow rate of the drain must be higher than the spray rate
This event is only there to prevent the tank from increasing pressure
@+;-))
Ps: at least that's how I see things
Hello
I agree with @gt22, you are not dealing with a problem of pressure but of flow. What matters to you is to know the flow of water you will enter your tank, to determine the air flow (roughly equal) that will come out of your vent. No?
@gt22 & Benoit.LF
You are partly right.
It should also be taken into account that if you clean the tank at 95°C via a cleaning ball that sprays and then rinse it at 10°C for example, the delta T°C leads to a rapid cooling of the tank and an equally rapid drop in pressure (do the test with a plastic bottle).
The vent section must therefore be large enough to let the air in quickly enough, especially since agri-food tanks often have a vacuum capacity of only a few mbar.
I'm sorry it's a false problem
You know the coef of expansion of the air so you know the volume diff
plus I don't think your tanks are the same material as a plastic bottle ;-)
@+;-))
Indeed, do you need to optimize the size of the vent?
Otherwise, an analytical calculation with consistent assumptions seems sufficient.
ANSYS CFD can probably answer the problem, but the cost is significant.
To illustrate: http://www.koreus.com/video/implosion-wagon-citerne.html
Going through a CFD software seems to me rich for your needs, I think you should be able to find a calculation engineer, who masters thermodynamics. Engineer who will bring you an Excel table for a price lower than the cost of a calculation license and its use.
This table will allow you to enter your Q/T° values and know how the tank behaves over time.
Hello
I agree with Stefbeno a little, it must be possible to do without a calculation software, but you need someone who masters thermodynamics well. But with Floworks it should be possible to calculate pressure/vacuum as a function of temperature.
In the documentation of floworks 2006 there is a tutorial to size vents on a tank.
http://docslide.us/documents/cosmos-floworks-2006-introducing.html#pfad
page 173 (22-7), be careful it's of a good level (maybe that's why it disappeared from the following versions)
Hello
Thank you all for your answers. So given your advice and remarks I may review my way of doing things. It's true that if I can do without software...
At the same time, the simulation side reassures me anyway. The cost of investing in a simulation solution is something to think about compared to the cost of a tank that would bend as in the example of Stefbeno...
@yoan.pacquelet thank you for your info and the link, but I can't open it from my post. Could you send it to me in pdf (at least the pages about vent sizing)?
Thank you.
thank you it will be very good!
Hello
Your physical problem is not trivial (bi-species, biphasic, evaporation, transient, etc.).
There are currently no software solutions adapted to an SME that has a one-off need.
The CFD code solutions will be of the ANSYS Fluent, Star-CCM+ type, etc...
These solutions are not affordable by an SME and very difficult to master on the fluid mechanics / thermal modeling technique.
We advise you to contact a specialized company such as ours.
For information, we have already dimensioned rupture discs for food tanks (in the cleaning phase).
Cdt
www.eurocfd.com