Hi all
I am doing a static study on a support of a motor fixed with a screw trough this conveyor by 2 bolts, but no resolution! (see P.J.)
Kind regards
simulation_support.rar
simulation_support.rar
Apparently, the "fixed geometry" of the model needs to be reviewed; The solver cannot resolve as is.
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How much are the forces on the support?
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And what is the material of sheet metal parts?
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Bolts generate a lot of interference, they prevent good meshing.
It's good to have put the screws in Bolt connector
Hello
The engine has a mass of 35 Kg
For the materials they are not all the same:
Support: E360
The rest: S185
The goal is that the support must support the load of the engine so the verification of the bolts at this load ( knowing that the system is positioned inclined with the ground by 35°)
Kind regards
Simplifying the study, we already have this:
With a load of 35 Kg
It is ok!!
and I hope the condition of the bolts are good too
Yes, no worries about bolts.
It is mainly the rigidity of the support that influences the displacement (about 1.2 mm for the yellow part)
but the deformation of the support influences the trough doesn't it (like a little traction on the bolts)
Good evening Firass
Regardless of the remarks of Aliende that I welcome, it seems to me that you are making some errors of reasoning and certainly of design.
1°) The U-shaped sheet metal part that supports the engine will become almost infinitely rigid once the engine is fixed by the six or worse by the twelve screws. Indeed, the frames of these motors are very rigid and will reinforce the two 6-hole flanks in a ratio of 1000 or more.
2°) The bolts never work in shear but always in compression. Therefore, it does not make sense to make a simulation on the holes that do not touch the bolts.
3°) For the simulation, only the vertical forces corresponding to the weight of the engine are to be taken into account. So without doing a simulation, we can tell you that you will not have any deformation at the level of the two 6-hole plates, especially if the engine is caught between these two sides. You are free to make a simulation that will not give any results (i.e. no movement)
4° On the other hand, at the level of design, there would be an exchange on the subject.
I see that you put very small gussets when you have space and that the material costs nothing on such a set. By the way, with two gussets under the two pieces, 6 vertical holes, it's enough since the simulation could prove it, the only forces you will have will be on the soldering and in support of the two outer gussets, the middle one can be removed.
5° All the efforts will be due to the lever at the end of which the 35 kg motor is fixed.
On the plate that is attached to the trough your gussets are too many and too small on your 10 mm plate which can deform (it's almost certain even given the 200 mm of scythe).
It's not too annoying if you put an elastic coupling between the motor and the bearing that holds the worm screw. But by putting only 3 gussets instead of three, but by extending them towards the motor , the entire motor mount, you will eliminate bending and especially vibrations.
All this means that the 1.69 mm URES is a pure illusion for me there will be no red and no green. On the other hand, you will have green and even a little red on the 10mm horizontal plate unless you lengthen the gussets underneath.
Your trough will suffer deformations because you only have two bolts and all the cantilever weight will be transferred to the 9.3 mm of the trough end plate.
These deformations will not be in traction on the bolts as you say but by the recovery of the lever arm.
6°) A 35 kg geared motor!! I would like to know the torque of the bouzin and the speed of the worm and this to only move very light material on only 3.660 mm even on a 30° slope
Sorry Firass to tell you that you should first modify your parts and before and after put your forces for the vertical simulation on the top of the two vertical pieces (i.e. 17 Kg, which is to say nothing), include in your simulation the plate at the end of the trough by changing it to the plate from 6.35 thick to 9.3 mm and that's it.
You will see that if you stick to my remarks you will be closer to the reality of real life and again with safety coeffs of 4 or higher.
I hope that you will take all these remarks positively as well as those made on the other forum.
Good luck with your achievement.
Kind regards
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Good evening ZOzo,
Thank you very much for your fascinating ideas, really a lot of great info.
In short, you have to reinforce the plate with 6.35 thick, and the gussets they are extended as much as possible towards the motors (that for the 4 gussets that I already have the facts)
For the 2 bolts are insufficient to avoid the deformation of the plate 6.35 of the trough?
I come back to the subject of the geared motor, for 119 Nm and 89 rpm (for the speed in my opinion it is not very large to transport light materials with a slope of 35° but the closest for a power of 1.1 Kw)
Kind regards
Hello Firass
Be careful, I didn't say that the two bolts for the 6.35 plate are insufficient.
I am saying that if there is to be a deformation somewhere, it will be in this place.
However, to come back to what I told you elsewhere, your trough and your engine will not be in a state of levitation but will be well placed on the ground or hanging on something.
Given what we know about the output of the shredder, it's a safe bet that the bottom corner of the trough and the bottom corner of the engine must be very close to the ground.
So you also have to design the frame that holds the trough because you can very well make the mechanically welded frame directly support the engine, thus avoiding any possibility of deformation of the part of the trough where there are the two bolts.
Another thing, I'm coming back to the 10 mm horizontal plate while the two vertical plates are thinner.
Put this plate the same thickness as the two 6-hole plates since you will be lengthening the gussets underneath. You could also make a U-bent sheet metal rather than making welds everywhere that tend to warp during the weld. But hey, that's just a remark in passing
I'm very surprised that a geared motor that only delivers 119 N.m is so heavy, but hey!!
Kind regards
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Hello Zozo,
I add a lever to + fix the motor, it's above the plate bend 7mm; it is formed by 2 sheets of 7mm with 2 gussets (and in this case I hope the motor is well fixed)
For the building, I made a model with 40*40*4 square tubes, but unfortunately there are interferences that it blocks me to continue the sumualtion!!
Kind regards
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Good evening Firass
How does your new part fit on the engine. Note that the two small gussets on this part are useless because your part is only supposed to work in traction and not in sliding from left to right.
I didn't understand that your engine was at the top, (personally I would have put it at the bottom without any additional clutter unless it bothered the shredder and again with a good chute it may simplify)
So pay attention to the tipping point because the 35 Kg are at odds.
You can check this by displaying the center of gravity. If the center of gravity is outside the Mechanically Welded Frame it means that your frame must be fixed on the ground or Put the boss under it if you want to get promotion quickly :-)
Don't forget to put bracing because there your frame will move back and forth and may also twist if it is not fixed to the ground. As a result, I don't give much of the welds of the middle top tube after a few months of operation.
Kind regards
PS: What is the total weight at this stage of the design
@ Zozo_mp @ firasschafai
I've been reading your communication thread for a while
and it is true that the frame and the engine mount need to be reviewed
For the engine mount do you have the refs of your set
to find out, among other things, the attachment points
and find an acceptable walkthrough
What exactly is your building for?
if it's to maintain and consolidate your worm screw assembly
It seems to me preferable to design your chute so that it is self-supporting
I think that via our favorite search engine
Search (inclined screw conveyor)
There are a multitude of ideas to be taken
@+ ;-)
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Hello
@ Zozo_mp
For the new piece; it is to attach with the engine by a bolt. (it is stressed to shear, isn't it)
Yes, I prefer to put the engine downstairs with an inclined support fixed to the ground but the space is insipasive. (I'm going to try to modify the screw frame in a way that I can fix the motor to the soles)
Of course the frame must be fixed to the ground, and in this case the two horizontal tubes are eliminated.
For the mass: the screw weighs about 514 Kg and the frame about 70 Kg (it must be reinforced as you say by bracing)
@gt22
The motor support must remain fixed on the sheet of the trough (9.3 mm thick) by 2 bolts (but I add a lever above the support welded on a flat iron and fixed by a bolt with the motor)
The screw is located under a shredder, inclined with a slope of 35° and a length of 3.6 m, so in my opinion the frame is more rigid in this case than a self-supporting chute.
Kind regards