HP Premium Station VS Premium Station Optimized with SOLIDWORKS

3D Design
1

Hi all

Some members have asked us for more information about the performance of the CAD workstations that are offered on the Visiativ e-shop, here they are:

We compared the HP Premium Workstation to an optimized Premium Workstation:

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- HP Z4 Premium Test Results:

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- Optimized Premium Station test results:

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If you have any further questions, our HP hardware expert will answer you live during the Workstation Performance Webinar on March 28 at 11:00 a.m.: https://www.visiativ.com/evenement/webinaire-stations-de-travail-cao-28-03-2023/

Have a nice day
Coralie

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Hello Coralie,

And thank you for this information.
Would it be possible to have this same information for a mobile phone as well?
… Thank you, @+.
AR.

3

Hello
I think you can take the 2020 out of the test because we can clearly see that there is a problem or SW claims increased performance but in this case we had to stay on the 2020 (2 times faster practically than the 2021 or 2022).
After that, depending on the software for securing user workstations, it can have a strong impact on SW's performance (we went from a score of 80 to 110/120).

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Hello @Cyril.f

There are a few things that upset me in the bench.

1°) we don't know which one is used and especially with what functions
2°) 6-core optimized CAD processor, it doesn't mean anything because the vast majority of the code doesn't know how to use multi-core The SW technicians say that for several versions some portions of the program have been using multi-core without knowing which programs. In my experience, only the PEF simulation and the antediluvian "photoview" in rendering mode uses multitread (this can be seen in the number of buckets).
99.9% of the time the graphics card has a flat encephalogram.
Who would buy a computer if you don't know the manufacturer of the processor or its reference,.

3°) it hasn't escaped your notice that in ==> system option ==> Performance ==> at the very bottom a checkbox ""improved graphics performance" in fact is unusable if you don't have a graphics card like Nvidia RTX (I forgot the technology you have to take CUDA or RTX)
An RTX A 4000 still costs $2231 which is more expensive than a good computer so you really have to use such a card.

Kind regards

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The functions used are always the same regardless of the version of SW.
Opening SW, opening an assembly file (mold) and reconstruction + rotation + zooming, opening the mold drawing + zoom + translation, opening a sheet metal part and reconstruction + rotation + zoom, opening the drawing and bis repeated, rendering of this sheet metal part. Then simulation on a valve if my memory is correct (Assembly)
So yes no multi cores on SW except simulation and some memory SW functions.

I'm just saying that the 2020 is falsely faster than the other versions because it "hides" some defects in the files that have been revealed for our part on the 2021 and we see in the test report that it's the graph that makes all the difference (on the rest it's the same thing). So in her performance test she certainly does something requiring less power even if visually it's exactly the same test (problem of the bench that brings up anything possible as well)

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Hi @Zozo_mp
Multicore is also used for MEPs on the latest versions: SW balances the calculation of the different views on different cores. But that's almost the only use.

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Thank you @froussel

I didn't know!
But you have to have in the MEP some damn large and very detailed assemblies for it to be meaningful.

It would still be interesting to know all the times when the multi-core is used.
I'm not even sure that those who did the bench for the proposed station have the info.

Anyway, wanting to overclock with SW is an inanity in 95% of cases. A four cores is enough and six cores when I am given concrete examples for PEF or Flow-simulation

To pluche

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Hi all
If you want to know more about workstation performance, the webinar replay is available! You'll find a Q&A with our HP hardware experts! : Workstation Performance for CAD - What's New in 2023
Happy replay :slight_smile:

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Hello @ all and @ All

I come back to the subject after being contacted for a solution (which nevertheless remains to be provens). I have no share in this company.

The proposal must cover the areas of remote computing and cloud storage.

In plain English, this means that all computing power is in the cloud.

In any case, this is what Dassault-système is already offering and what Solidworks will offer in the near future with the end of SW on Windows. (I haven't talked about it several times on this forum without it moving anyone, in short!)

I'll put you the link that will tell you much more but imagine that you have a config
8 SSD cores 2 x 256 GB, 16 GB RAM GPU NVidia RTX A4500 from €139.00 excl. VAT /month or €1,868 per year.

Compare this to the price of a machine on your premises.
Especially since the annual cost is spent on expenses and not on investment and this allows you to keep your current machines without having to upgrade them.
Of course, it's fully compatible with all your Windows or Mac applications.

Here are some configs

  • Spark Intel Xeon CPU 2.5 - 3.1GHz 8 vCores SSD 256 GB, 12 GB RAM GPU NVidia 1080/P5000, from 59,00€HT

  • Aurora Intel Xeon CPU 3.4 - 4.5GHz 8 vCores SSD 256 GB, 16 GB RAM GPU NVidia RTX 5000 (inc Ray Tracing) 12GB VRAM from 89,00€ excl. VAT / month

  • Lightning CPU Intel Xeon 3.4 - 4.4GHz 12 vCores SSD 256GB +768 GB SSD, 32 GB RAM GPU NVidia RTX 6000 (inc Ray Tracing) 24GB VRAM from 139,00€ HT /month

  • Zenith CPU AMD Epyc 2.8-3.7GHz 8 vCores SSD 2x256GB, 16 GB RAM GPU NVidia RTX A4500 from 139,00€ HT /month

It was OVH that hosted Linkoa (including during the fire :frowning: )

Houala!

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Hello;

To bounce back on the subject of @Zozo_mp , here is an excerpt from Visiativ's email (D'aujourd'hui) about the future of Solidworks:

>" … As a SOLIDWORKS Solutions customer, we would like to inform you that Dassault Systèmes has made the decision to change the engagement model for all new license and maintenance purchases effective July 1, 2023.

> Indeed, the major areas of development for Dassault Systèmes are the adoption of the 3DEXPERIENCE SOLIDWORKS solution and the 3DEXPERIENCE PLATFORM.
> These areas of development have an impact on the mode of engagement by moving from a traditional model (purchase of a perpetual license with maintenance) to a subscription model.
>The traditional acquisition model is still possible, under special conditions.

> Dassault Systèmes SOLIDWORKS has decided that as of July 1, 2023, for the acquisition of a SOLIDWORKS Classic range license (SOLIDWORKS, Simulation, PDM, Electrical, etc.), it will now be mandatory to associate it with an initial 2-year maintenance contract including as standard roles from the 3DEXPERIENCE platform that provide data management functionalities, collaboration as well as the benefits of the cloud.

>The cost of acquiring a new license will therefore be mechanically increased and will be associated with 2 years of support for this new service."

… There you go, there you go... enough to move you (?).

What about fiber optics, server reliability (OVH?), data storage, imposed updates... and old people who won't appreciate the change (of which I am one).

Kind regards.

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Hello

I left Autodesk Inventor because maintenance has become mandatory and in addition if no maintenance is no longer possible to use the software (blocked).
This model adopted by Autodesk (microsoft, etc...) has become the rule for all publishers who want to have recurring revenues.
Indeed, selling a license that will be used for 5 or 10 years without maintenance is not profitable (hence the disappearance of VAR for 10 years).

You know Maclane if Solidworks is entirely on the net, you have no choice but to adopt it or to keep the current solution (software in your workstation), but with a high risk of technological deficit, because Windows is still evolving, the old versions are no longer maintained and unless you keep your old machine are old OS and your old SW and burn candles to Saint Rita patron saint of causes desperate is not 100% Full Kiff.

By the way , the salespeople I never see have ever offered me to give me a demo in FRENCH of 3D EXPERIENCE SOLIDWORKS and even less of the financial conditions, nor the conditions of migration of existing models, nor the necessary learning curve, nor the training in new interfaces, nor the necessary network adaptation (I have fiber), nor cybersecurity guarantees (when we see very large computer groups being hacked, gulp), nor the guarantee that the NSA does not make all our models available, nor ..., nor (please fill in what is missing, then count the number of Ni).

Note: I had 3D experience for a year and well it's incomprehensible because everything is mostly accessible on multi-site collaborative work, but no info on Solidworks Cloud.

Between us, if they treat you like I do, the migration is not going to be easy for them.
If you are not part of a large group or a company with a dozen stations, you do not count.

Who has concrete, differentiated and permanent experience of 3D EXPERIENCE SOLIDWORKS.
Who can say more than what is on the DassautSys website

Although I myself am struck by planned obsolescence, well it's not because I have one foot in the grave that I won't worry about who will step on me on the other foot. :grimacing:

Kind regards

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Bah;

What worries me the most is that I can't get reliable information about their 3Dexperience.
Neither about the interface, let alone the use...
My only experience of the "full online" version is their forum 3dswym (3dexperience) is there it's not brilliant brilliant. It's messy, disorganized and I'm not talking about the content of the messages... :face_vomiting:

My other concern is:
"What to do with all my tools (macro: VBA; C#) that I have spent so much time designing and developing to make it easier for my company to work? Is it lost forever and ever?

After all, if Dassault offers an interface and tools (relatively) similar to the "offline" version, why not...

But the idea of putting all my eggs in their basket stresses me out a bit.

… To be continued...

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Hello @Maclane

The Online is quite similar from the interface and functions point of view, but it is much more modern and simpler for certain functions such as the number of holes in a repeat.

For macros of all kinds, it is likely that you will need them less because the DNA of the "ONline" is collaboration between partners. The original Solidworks was pure CAD to which PDM and PLM were later added.

As these are independent modules and with obvious synchronization constraints, these problems should have disappeared because the Online tool is written from scratch to be able to do without Windows for code execution.

So only an analysis of a company's processes will make it possible to say how this new tool has shortcomings.
I will say one thing and its opposite :wink:
It must be considered that this product was not created from scratch but from the colossal sum of uses in the 4 corners of the planet, which is spherical.
So if they haven't stepped on each other's necks, there should be a full and smooth integration of all the tools, instead of a stack of functions. The first thing that will disappear is the internal network problems when using PDM in conflict with workstations (see the many posts on the subject).
On the other hand, I don't have any information on the recovery of older projects (some of us have to guarantee an after-sales service of more than 10 years.

It's not the software part that concerns me but the modularity and especially the price.
Previously you had a fairly high acquisition cost but the cost of use was reasonable.
The acquisition cost for the premium single-post version was 9600 € in 2009
For a premium with a single workstation you had a renewal-maintenance of 2250€ so over 10 years 22500.
That is to say, over the period, a hit to the year of 3210 € (all things being equal).
With the cloud version
4100 €/year for the Standard version
4740 €/year for the Professional version (actually a little more functionality than my current version).
6180 €/year for the Premium version.

Just for your information, before I went back to CAD design ten years ago, I was an expert in complex information systems architecture and process analysis. So I can see quite well the potential impacts of such important changes.

Kind regards

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It's going to be fun to go to customers where the company network is not connected to the net...
and with a connection to a mobile phone, when you have difficulty having 3G outside (depending on the direction of the wind, the position of the planets :crazy_face:, etc.), and nothing left in the hangars...

And the question: who owns the files now if they are in the cloud?
will explain to the client, that his files are in the 3rd cloud on the left.

At least they may be able to fix the bugs within the year, because everyone will have the beta0 version to work on from the beginning.
I hope they will let everyone know to take a day off during maintenance. :grin:

Is this their new version of CAPTCHA to train their AI?

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Hi all

I see from your messages that you lack information about the 3DEXPERIENCE platform... Have you seen these videos? Replay What's New 3DEXPERIENCE 2022 - YouTube & 3DEXPERIENCE FOR ALL 2020 Webinar - YouTube
They give you a lot of information and explanations about the platform: the demos and examples will give you an idea of the 3DEXPERIENCE and its uses :face_with_monocle:

As far as prices are concerned, each subscription differs from the company, the number of licenses, the duration of the subscription... It is therefore difficult to give you a price order.
However, if you lack information, don't hesitate to ask your Visiativ sales representatives!

Would you also like us to set up a dedicated 3DEXPERIENCE conversation with a Visiativ expert? So that you can ask your questions and get clearer answers!

Have a good day, Coralie

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Thank you for the feedback @Coralie.
Personally, I'd like to understand what it changes compared to a "classic" license I'm used to

Conversation could be a good idea indeed. Because the HP station is far away! :rofl:
Though that said, maybe it affects the power needed by our machines?

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Thanks for the video links @Coralie ;

However, it does not address the "Solidworks" side in the sense of design.
From what I understand, 3Dexperience is more of a cloud-based file management "OS".
I agree with @coin37coin that a new conversation on this subject would be welcome.

Kind regards.

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Hi all

A conversation has been created around the 3DEXPERIENCE platform, feel free to ask your questions :wink: